@RyunoKi /

There is also the homogeneity, but I don't think it is as important as the rest.

And I sense a social factor where the Lisp community is seen as too conservative, closed off, or something like this.

But when you look past all this incredible things are to be found.

@RyunoKi /

mine are positive, but I understand the negative.

Part of it is, I believe, in the very very very subtle bugs, such as the one shown in the article.

Because only nesting of brackets is leveraged in the syntax and not their juxtaposition, it is overnested. Which is difficult for people to read. That's a major factor contributing to the unpopularity of Lisp in particular.

Another is coding conventions where closing brackets are stacked together. /

@RyunoKi They are indeed not among the most popular, but not totally obscure, within the top 40. Most notable recent incarnation is perhaps Clojure.

However Lisp is definitely among the most influential, within the top 3, e.g. exploring-data.com/vis/program

From the TIOBE top 20, I count 7 *directly* influenced: Python, JavaScript, Swift, R, Perl, Lua, Ruby.

Anyway what is most interesting from the perspective of Jevko is the syntax of Lisp which is often met with extreme emotions.


@RyunoKi that's right, only these two elements are left. The point is that if you simply rearrange the closing bracket then the dot is not only not necessary but the expressions become easier to read. It's a beautiful example of improvement through simplification, as in the famous Antoine de Saint-Exupéry quote. It's a kind of syntactic poetry.

@RyunoKi (continuing)

At least that's the grand vision behind Jevko which works as a motivator.

Reality is what it is. A vision is a fantasy which is made to verify against reality, invariably to be adjusted or killed.

Things grow as they please.

@RyunoKi (continuing)

Jevko has the same properties. It is no less minimal, and perhaps even more expressive and human-friendly.

It is also well-defined: github.com/jevko/specification

This addresses the main pain points of S-expressions, at least in my view.

I believe that there is a timeline where S-expressions took off in a major way in the 1960s and became a basic building block of a better Internet and AI research.

I'm trying to see if this timeline can be fixed to still bring that back.

@RyunoKi funny you should ask, as I am currently working on an article about S-expressions. Hope it'll come out good.

To answer your question in short though, they are the syntax of the Lisp family of programming languages.

Originally formulated around 1960 by John McCarthy, evolved very slightly since.

The cool thing about them is that they are extremely minimal, but also extremely expressive.

@RyunoKi duly noted, thank you.

A lot comes down to properly serving the audience. Which is especially difficult when bootstrapping a project in an unpopular area.

This is why even the tiniest feedback, such as yours, is super valuable at this stage. 🌱

Aim for the moon or the stars and if you miss something something.

Or: dream big. In other words have a vision.

Here is one:



@RyunoKi glad to be informative! Any tips on making the writing easier to grasp are always welcome. 🙂

@RyunoKi indeed, this is likely the biggest contributor.

Although web development is also huge.

> Interestingly, only 29% of the Python developers involved in data analysis and machine learning consider themselves to be Data Scientists

Source: pyfound.blogspot.com/2022/06/a

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